This transcript is of a conversation between the CEO’s Balthazar Schlep and Lis who has been experimenting with various sorcery techniques. We do not recommend emulating Lis’ experiments at home.
Lis is italicised to differentiate the voices.
CC is Carlos Castaneda. DJ is Don Juan.
“Os sinto como energia alienígena, Ponho minha intenção em sua direção como se fosse lá,
Em certo sentido, sinto-os como estática nimbular acumulada, como acumulação de energia cúmulo-nimbo
Assim posso conjurar minha atenção para viajar, quase astralmente,
Se tento isso, risco cair nas profundezas da sonolência como se desejasse sonhar, corro arriscando virar algo perigoso…”
This feels so much the case.
This would not be scientifically accepted though -the accretive entanglement notion.
It’s liable to break the systems put in place to make this impossible in the first place.
What’s weird again seems that division between magic and sorcery. As soon as I talk about accretions it almost seems rational compared to sorcery. It’s like the vertical/ horizontal thing. Bizarrely magic is just a vertical movement and sorcery is horizontal (tree and rhizome in Deleuze and Guattari). Yet in relation to regular reality it is the accretions that looks horizontal. Sorcery is such an unfathomably deep cut. It seems like opening up a realm so ridiculously vast.
Just to add something before I tackle this: The AP is something that we can displace along our bodies, right? If this were me changing my AP, my body would be way too “big”. In regards of luminous body, this can’t be the case. If it is an AP change that makes it possible to do this stuff, it’s because what is happening is not a displace of AP in my luminous body, but the reciprocity of perspectives between me and something that answered the call when the AP was pushed to the furthest extreme of my attention. I agree with your magick/sorcery remark.
The thing will be enabling you to move the AP.
It feels like sorcery is the terminal point of magick when it enters battle-magic stage because it is more violent, in all senses. It is more urgent. There is urgency instead of tendency (the concept of tendency, from Aristotle, does not work with sorcery at all, only agencies exist after a certain point, and agencies do not have tendencies [only particles compounding into those subjectivities/agencies have tendency]. And so after a certain point, after an opening of the luminous sphere, all that can be really sensed is the constant fluxing expression of urgency in the behaviour of inorganic things that’s how, I think, panpsychism presents a pitfall in a way. A pitfall in the comprehension of these possibilities, putting into boxes as properties what are simply relationships, reciprocities and reverberations. Indeed to that, the thing feel like a surrogate for the AP. I think Dan might be onto something in sync with what we’re doing here, look at this from the subreddit:
“Carlos traced the path the assemblage point takes when moved towards heightened awareness by your own power.
Wev’e been doing darkroom based on his lecture on the topic.
And nothing wrong with that! It’s a true understanding.
But Juan got to wondering about something.
And suggested “depth” didn’t mean what we thought.
I looked at the egg diagram again, and realized one whole egg diagram had been overlooked.
It’s true that we have no Nagual. And so, we can’t manage “the Nagual’s Blow”.
But that’s a different diagram on the original egg diagram. It’s a dramatic deformation of the entire egg.
Because it was so dramatic, I assumed we can’t do that.
That we can’t move into the interior of the cheese slice which represents Man’s Band.
But there, in that same diagram, Carlos shows what a shift into the interior looks like.
Not so dramatic we can’t do that ourselves!
But wait… Now that I think about it, we’re trying to make a “dent” in our energy body, using the finger wiggling.
If we can dent our energy body by ourselves, why can’t we make a dent in our egg, by ourselves?
Just a small one, like shown there.
It would explain why “depth” is used sometimes, and doesn’t seem to correspond to moving the assemblage point, “down”.
Then I realized…
Carol Tiggs told us we could do that, at a workshop!
Everyone likely assumed she was not speaking literally, and was simply tired of everyone asking her to do the Nagual’s blow on them.
Always looking for the lazy way out! We’re hopeless.
But in fact, Carol had already told us about this direction we forgot we could move our assemblage points!
She even implied you could do that by pushing on it. Or someone else pushing on it.
Here’s Juan’s idea. It’s even different than I was thinking.
He’s making a “dent”, but it’s not straight in, like Carlos shows.
It’s sort of a “wrinkle” causes by moving down?” (Castaneda Subreddit)
The fluxing metalic gas-like opening of light might be this “dent” he’s talking about.
“This process of emphasizing certain emanations,” don Juan went on, “was discovered and practiced by the old seers. They realized that a nagual man or a nagual woman, by the fact that they have extra strength, can push the emphasis away from the usual emanations and make it shift to neighboring ones. That push is known as the nagual’s blow.” Don Juan said that the shift was utilized by the old seers in practical ways to keep their apprentices in bondage. With that blow they made their apprentices enter into a state of heightened, keenest, most impressionable awareness; while they were helplessly pliable, the old seers taught them aberrant techniques that made the apprentices into sinister men, just like their teachers. The new seers employ the same technique, but instead of using it for sordid purposes, they use it to guide their apprentices to learn about man’s possibilities. Don Juan explained that the nagual’s blow has to be delivered on a precise spot, on the assemblage point, which varies minutely from person to person. Also, the blow has to be delivered by a nagual who sees. He assured me that it is equally useless to have the strength of a nagual and not see, as it is to see and not have the strength of a nagual, in either case the results are just blows. A seer could strike on the precise spot over and over without the strength to move awareness. and a non-seeing nagual would not be able to strike the precise spot.” (The Fire from Within)
It definitely feels like this might be the case, since I put this cousin of mine in a bind that she wouldn’t get up from that same spot for the entirety of our session there, as I myself had stayed in that spot for previous sessions. I then, to ground myself and her, asked for a number to which she said 5. Every time I sensed any mood swing in the amalgamated mass of emotions that was the room, I asked her “the number?” to which she always replied 5 and stabilized things (I did this often).
If it were the case, then, the nodes themselves seem to conform with the description of what makes us human: our luminous bodies, the cocoons. These nodes are simply lumps of purer awareness that need certain energetic conditions “opening” the seer so that they may shine a bit opaquer and interaction become possible through the surrogate ally displacing the AP in this newfound coordinate Dan is arguing for. In other words, the nodes are alien but all-too-human
And I don’t mean any dead, I mean impeccable warriors that left for the second attention entirely, for the third, or are in the process of such. The nodes are like cocoons either left behind or still maturing. It seems that the ones that reverberate (rotate) are one of those two. I don’t know which, though. It would be very telling either way.
One of those, probably the one that asserts it’s “people” still maturing, seems to fall into the pitfalls of panpsychism. It feels more correct that reverberation happens between the cocoons entirely vestigial, that have become fossil marks, residual power like black holes, left for the taking not for any other warrior, but by power itself, because power begets itself. And so they’re, at the same time reservatories of power, pools in fact, also traps. Because if meek power approaches them and tries to bend the hardest, in the mingling of reciprocal displacement, the weaker will be bent and its power sucked away into that thing. Any power that is taken away from itself and amassed into a box-like node, frees the one that left that node as a corpse-like blueprint of itself (because, as people of knowledge, we need to win the fight against the blinding strength of power — so they leave their power not entirely behind but in this intermezzo place, this middle, this liminal lodge)
A benefactor is someone who sees the immature nodes and helps them crack, like an egg (this is not certain to work, but to become a benefactor one has to have left their own node “behind”, and so they can reverberate with the immature egg-like node). That’s what Silvio Manuel was doing to CC. The fear he induced on CC was because his benefaction was happening at the nodal level, and so he seemed like the night itself to CC, because he was trying to apply pressure to his softer node through reverberation. At first, DJ found it best that CC did not know this. He shifted his attention towards the other-side benefactor that was Genaro. Genaro was like light itself compared.
Last thing: He also said that the old seers discovered that the assemblage point is not in the physical body, but in the luminous shell, in the cocoon itself. The nagual identifies that spot by its intense luminosity and pushes it, rather than striking it. The force of the push creates a dent in the cocoon and it is felt like a blow to the right shoulder blade, a blow that knocks all the air out of the lungs. Took this from that website about the nagual blow. It’s interesting because as she tried to catch the grey cat with her eyes, I asked her the number, she replied 5 and then I suddenly started seeing the cat as well, but silvery. What happened next I took as just an after-effect of the drugs, but I guess it wasn’t: she was sitting on the other extreme of the same place, on my right. If the blow comes from your right, it makes sense, since she fell down face to my arm and passed out for a moment before returning and sharing visuals with me (we having the same visual trip). If she fell towards me, on her left side, it’s because if there was any physical sensation of blow it was coming from her right side.
“The assemblage point of man appears around a definite area of the cocoon, because the Eagle commands it,” he said. “But the precise spot is determined by habit, by repetitious acts. First we learn that it can be placed there and then we ourselves command it to be there. Our command becomes the Eagle’s command and that point is fixated at that spot. Consider this very carefully; our command becomes the Eagle’s command. The old seers paid dearly for that finding. We’ll come back to that later on.” Question: Does he come back to this in other books? Maybe The Art of Dreaming? Because this is sounding a lot like what I just told you, the leftover “shells” of power. “He stated once again that the old seers had concentrated exclusively on developing thousands of the most complex techniques of sorcery. He added that what they never realized was that their intricate devices, as bizarre as they were, had no other value than being the means to break the fixation of their assemblage points and make them move.”
The people on the subreddit are afraid of this but they do not know what it is. They have no nagual and borrow energy from other people, but not any drugs. This is very concerning and weird. There is too much residual “Western” thought in them that they think is annihilated, so someone like Dan just projects something and tries to fight there. They’re in a loop in which they think to have achieved some sort of purity. They seem to think that the “mind” is any different from “reason”, and so maintain a type of panpsy approach that is anti-rationalist while postulating completely ideal conditions (mind = soul, strictly personal energy). When I cannot find a point (of earlier works) in which reason is made correlative with mind. It’s often the opposite. But I see now that they prefer the later books (and Dan has theories that discard things from older books)
Promise this is the last thing: “By all ordinary measures, you were indeed losing your mind,” he said, “but in the seers’ view, if you had lost it, you wouldn’t have lost much. The mind, for a seer, is nothing but the self-reflection of the inventory of man. If you lose that self-reflection, but don’t lose your underpinnings, you actually live an infinitely stronger life than if you had kept it.” From “The Fire from Within”. This loss of self-reflection is what happens to the “underpinnings”, the infrastructure of the sorcerer, which leads into the nodal life of staying invisible and unmovable. The nodes are alive, which is something I’ve felt since the first time.
Dan wants to know how much of this can be done without entheogens?
And yes I can do it without the drugs (which is what I said there, it was implied in the very post).
I really will reply, I’m just bogged down with various mundane things. Dan is obviously a bit mental but he does have some knowledge. It’s so weird, on the one hand he wants to encourage young people in with the promise of actual powers and then he eschews people who ask questions and act incredibly polite.
Just digesting what you said in bits. Your nodes theory seems possible but we’re in crazy land here. Who knows, I assumed the energy just dispersed. Why would it leave a node marker?
I think in an opposite manner. I think I come from asking “why would disperse it”? Coming from a post-relativity (in physics) mindset, I tend to just ask how something is gonna stop that other thing.
I suppose I think that because the animal is dead so the general awareness is gone.
You know, the inertia law in a vacuum, so if there isn’t a reason for something to dissipate, I assume it won’t.
Or if it’s gone, why is there a marker?
I see, I am assuming a kind of entropy, it’s true.
But still surely seems weird in such a flux like universe to have static blobs like this, which is why I thought they were probably like alien energetic poke throughs from some other level.
I see, it’s true it is a completely open, the topic as to what they are. In that moment I was just channelling a feeling of what it seemed like. it felt like something familiar.