This transcript is of a conversation between the CEO’s Balthazar Schlep and Lis who has been experimenting with various sorcery techniques. We do not recommend emulating Lis’ experiments at home.

Lis is italicised to differentiate the voices.

CC is Carlos Castaneda. DJ is Don Juan.

“Os sinto como energia alienígena, Ponho minha intenção em sua direção como se fosse lá,
Em certo sentido, sinto-os como estática nimbular acumulada, como acumulação de energia cúmulo-nimbo
Assim posso conjurar minha atenção para viajar, quase astralmente,
Se tento isso, risco cair nas profundezas da sonolência como se desejasse sonhar, corro arriscando virar algo perigoso…”

Seranoga (1964)

This feels so much the case.

This would not be scientifically accepted though -the accretive entanglement notion.

It’s sorcery.

Of course.

It’s liable to break the systems put in place to make this impossible in the first place.

What’s weird again seems that division between magic and sorcery. As soon as I talk about accretions it almost seems rational compared to sorcery. It’s like the vertical/ horizontal thing. Bizarrely magic is just a vertical movement and sorcery is horizontal (tree and rhizome in Deleuze and Guattari). Yet in relation to regular reality it is the accretions that looks horizontal. Sorcery is such an unfathomably deep cut. It seems like opening up a realm so ridiculously vast.

Just to add something before I tackle this: The AP is something that we can displace along our bodies, right? If this were me changing my AP, my body would be way too “big”. In regards of luminous body, this can’t be the case. If it is an AP change that makes it possible to do this stuff, it’s because what is happening is not a displace of AP in my luminous body, but the reciprocity of perspectives between me and something that answered the call when the AP was pushed to the furthest extreme of my attention. I agree with your magick/sorcery remark.

The thing will be enabling you to move the AP.

It feels like sorcery is the terminal point of magick when it enters battle-magic stage because it is more violent, in all senses. It is more urgent. There is urgency instead of tendency (the concept of tendency, from Aristotle, does not work with sorcery at all, only agencies exist after a certain point, and agencies do not have tendencies [only particles compounding into those subjectivities/agencies have tendency]. And so after a certain point, after an opening of the luminous sphere, all that can be really sensed is the constant fluxing expression of urgency in the behaviour of inorganic things that’s how, I think, panpsychism presents a pitfall in a way. A pitfall in the comprehension of these possibilities, putting into boxes as properties what are simply relationships, reciprocities and reverberations. Indeed to that, the thing feel like a surrogate for the AP. I think Dan might be onto something in sync with what we’re doing here, look at this from the subreddit:

“Carlos traced the path the assemblage point takes when moved towards heightened awareness by your own power.

Wev’e been doing darkroom based on his lecture on the topic.

And nothing wrong with that! It’s a true understanding.

But Juan got to wondering about something.

And suggested “depth” didn’t mean what we thought.

I looked at the egg diagram again, and realized one whole egg diagram had been overlooked.

It’s true that we have no Nagual. And so, we can’t manage “the Nagual’s Blow”.

But that’s a different diagram on the original egg diagram. It’s a dramatic deformation of the entire egg.

Because it was so dramatic, I assumed we can’t do that.

That we can’t move into the interior of the cheese slice which represents Man’s Band.

But there, in that same diagram, Carlos shows what a shift into the interior looks like.

Not so dramatic we can’t do that ourselves!

But wait… Now that I think about it, we’re trying to make a “dent” in our energy body, using the finger wiggling.

If we can dent our energy body by ourselves, why can’t we make a dent in our egg, by ourselves?

Just a small one, like shown there.

It would explain why “depth” is used sometimes, and doesn’t seem to correspond to moving the assemblage point, “down”.

Then I realized…

Carol Tiggs told us we could do that, at a workshop!

Everyone likely assumed she was not speaking literally, and was simply tired of everyone asking her to do the Nagual’s blow on them.

Always looking for the lazy way out! We’re hopeless.

But in fact, Carol had already told us about this direction we forgot we could move our assemblage points!

She even implied you could do that by pushing on it. Or someone else pushing on it.

Here’s Juan’s idea. It’s even different than I was thinking.

He’s making a “dent”, but it’s not straight in, like Carlos shows.

It’s sort of a “wrinkle” causes by moving down?” (Castaneda Subreddit)

The fluxing metalic gas-like opening of light might be this “dent” he’s talking about.

“This process of emphasizing certain emanations,” don Juan went on, “was discovered and practiced by the old seers. They realized that a nagual man or a nagual woman, by the fact that they have extra strength, can push the emphasis away from the usual emanations and make it shift to neighboring ones. That push is known as the nagual’s blow.” Don Juan said that the shift was utilized by the old seers in practical ways to keep their apprentices in bondage. With that blow they made their apprentices enter into a state of heightened, keenest, most impressionable awareness; while they were helplessly pliable, the old seers taught them aberrant techniques that made the apprentices into sinister men, just like their teachers. The new seers employ the same technique, but instead of using it for sordid purposes, they use it to guide their apprentices to learn about man’s possibilities. Don Juan explained that the nagual’s blow has to be delivered on a precise spot, on the assemblage point, which varies minutely from person to person. Also, the blow has to be delivered by a nagual who sees. He assured me that it is equally useless to have the strength of a nagual and not see, as it is to see and not have the strength of a nagual, in either case the results are just blows. A seer could strike on the precise spot over and over without the strength to move awareness. and a non-seeing nagual would not be able to strike the precise spot.” (The Fire from Within)

It definitely feels like this might be the case, since I put this cousin of mine in a bind that she wouldn’t get up from that same spot for the entirety of our session there, as I myself had stayed in that spot for previous sessions. I then, to ground myself and her, asked for a number to which she said 5. Every time I sensed any mood swing in the amalgamated mass of emotions that was the room, I asked her “the number?” to which she always replied 5 and stabilized things (I did this often).

If it were the case, then, the nodes themselves seem to conform with the description of what makes us human: our luminous bodies, the cocoons. These nodes are simply lumps of purer awareness that need certain energetic conditions “opening” the seer so that they may shine a bit opaquer and interaction become possible through the surrogate ally displacing the AP in this newfound coordinate Dan is arguing for. In other words, the nodes are alien but all-too-human

And I don’t mean any dead, I mean impeccable warriors that left for the second attention entirely, for the third, or are in the process of such. The nodes are like cocoons either left behind or still maturing. It seems that the ones that reverberate (rotate) are one of those two. I don’t know which, though. It would be very telling either way.

One of those, probably the one that asserts it’s “people” still maturing, seems to fall into the pitfalls of panpsychism. It feels more correct that reverberation happens between the cocoons entirely vestigial, that have become fossil marks, residual power like black holes, left for the taking not for any other warrior, but by power itself, because power begets itself. And so they’re, at the same time reservatories of power, pools in fact, also traps. Because if meek power approaches them and tries to bend the hardest, in the mingling of reciprocal displacement, the weaker will be bent and its power sucked away into that thing. Any power that is taken away from itself and amassed into a box-like node, frees the one that left that node as a corpse-like blueprint of itself (because, as people of knowledge, we need to win the fight against the blinding strength of power — so they leave their power not entirely behind but in this intermezzo place, this middle, this liminal lodge)

A benefactor is someone who sees the immature nodes and helps them crack, like an egg (this is not certain to work, but to become a benefactor one has to have left their own node “behind”, and so they can reverberate with the immature egg-like node). That’s what Silvio Manuel was doing to CC. The fear he induced on CC was because his benefaction was happening at the nodal level, and so he seemed like the night itself to CC, because he was trying to apply pressure to his softer node through reverberation. At first, DJ found it best that CC did not know this. He shifted his attention towards the other-side benefactor that was Genaro. Genaro was like light itself compared.

Last thing: He also said that the old seers discovered that the assemblage point is not in the physical body, but in the luminous shell, in the cocoon itself. The nagual identifies that spot by its intense luminosity and pushes it, rather than striking it. The force of the push creates a dent in the cocoon and it is felt like a blow to the right shoulder blade, a blow that knocks all the air out of the lungs. Took this from that website about the nagual blow. It’s interesting because as she tried to catch the grey cat with her eyes, I asked her the number, she replied 5 and then I suddenly started seeing the cat as well, but silvery. What happened next I took as just an after-effect of the drugs, but I guess it wasn’t: she was sitting on the other extreme of the same place, on my right. If the blow comes from your right, it makes sense, since she fell down face to my arm and passed out for a moment before returning and sharing visuals with me (we having the same visual trip). If she fell towards me, on her left side, it’s because if there was any physical sensation of blow it was coming from her right side.

“The assemblage point of man appears around a definite area of the cocoon, because the Eagle commands it,” he said. “But the precise spot is determined by habit, by repetitious acts. First we learn that it can be placed there and then we ourselves command it to be there. Our command becomes the Eagle’s command and that point is fixated at that spot. Consider this very carefully; our command becomes the Eagle’s command. The old seers paid dearly for that finding. We’ll come back to that later on.” Question: Does he come back to this in other books? Maybe The Art of Dreaming? Because this is sounding a lot like what I just told you, the leftover “shells” of power. “He stated once again that the old seers had concentrated exclusively on developing thousands of the most complex techniques of sorcery. He added that what they never realized was that their intricate devices, as bizarre as they were, had no other value than being the means to break the fixation of their assemblage points and make them move.”

The people on the subreddit are afraid of this but they do not know what it is. They have no nagual and borrow energy from other people, but not any drugs. This is very concerning and weird. There is too much residual “Western” thought in them that they think is annihilated, so someone like Dan just projects something and tries to fight there. They’re in a loop in which they think to have achieved some sort of purity. They seem to think that the “mind” is any different from “reason”, and so maintain a type of panpsy approach that is anti-rationalist while postulating completely ideal conditions (mind = soul, strictly personal energy). When I cannot find a point (of earlier works) in which reason is made correlative with mind. It’s often the opposite. But I see now that they prefer the later books (and Dan has theories that discard things from older books)

Promise this is the last thing: “By all ordinary measures, you were indeed losing your mind,” he said, “but in the seers’ view, if you had lost it, you wouldn’t have lost much. The mind, for a seer, is nothing but the self-reflection of the inventory of man. If you lose that self-reflection, but don’t lose your underpinnings, you actually live an infinitely stronger life than if you had kept it.” From “The Fire from Within”. This loss of self-reflection is what happens to the “underpinnings”, the infrastructure of the sorcerer, which leads into the nodal life of staying invisible and unmovable. The nodes are alive, which is something I’ve felt since the first time.

Dan wants to know how much of this can be done without entheogens?

And yes I can do it without the drugs (which is what I said there, it was implied in the very post).

I really will reply, I’m just bogged down with various mundane things. Dan is obviously a bit mental but he does have some knowledge. It’s so weird, on the one hand he wants to encourage young people in with the promise of actual powers and then he eschews people who ask questions and act incredibly polite.

Just digesting what you said in bits. Your nodes theory seems possible but we’re in crazy land here. Who knows, I assumed the energy just dispersed. Why would it leave a node marker?

I think in an opposite manner. I think I come from asking “why would disperse it”? Coming from a post-relativity (in physics) mindset, I tend to just ask how something is gonna stop that other thing.

I suppose I think that because the animal is dead so the general awareness is gone.

You know, the inertia law in a vacuum, so if there isn’t a reason for something to dissipate, I assume it won’t.

Or if it’s gone, why is there a marker?

I see, I am assuming a kind of entropy, it’s true.

But still surely seems weird in such a flux like universe to have static blobs like this, which is why I thought they were probably like alien energetic poke throughs from some other level.

I see, it’s true it is a completely open, the topic as to what they are. In that moment I was just channelling a feeling of what it seemed like. it felt like something familiar.

“I can feel them like alien energy,
I place my intent towards them as if I were going there,
In a sense, they feel like nimbus energy somehow accumulated
In this way I can cast my attention to travel, almost astrally,
If I try this, I may fall to somnolence as if I wished to dream, to stalk…”

Seranoga (1964)

That time warping light being can also be to trying to read you.

It is 100% doing that

Indeed! Which is what I thought demons assumed as form in our “epoch”. This that I’m experiencing feels very close to summoning a high demon in Goetia. It feels like not trying to read me, but use me as camera to read everything else.  It’s the reciprocal thing. That’s why it feels like I’m feeding it and vice versa.

If it didn’t go away when you shut up shop, would that be a problem?

I’ve just noticed they the initial corner-bound thing could be a thing of my own creation. A barrier put there unconsciously like a net. I sit in a dark room (initially) and make my mind as negative (devoid of thought) as possible, like I’m both the bait and the hunter of these things

Which makes sense, beyond structural necessity, that architecture used corners and nowadays there is the problem of the corner (which capitalism seems to want over with).

Yes, I think this makes sense, any semiotic node is a possible exit/connecting line.

I doubt it will stick with me if I don’t want it to anymore.

I once read a lyric you remind me of ‘hidden claw of cornered sense, be well aware of false intent’. Seems strangely appropriate.

That’s a great one. Sounds like something from King Crimson. I just went for the figure of the spider that you hold to me, just now to better elaborate on the aspect of the lure and the corner

I’m sorry which spider?

Because it does feel like between two architectures here (one very oval-like and smooth, indigenous) and the other more in the western vein, better protected for a particular type of invader, jagged. That spider that appears a lot in poems and writings of Seranoga and some of your work. The corner thing though, it’s real. I tested it hehhahhahahaha.

Hang on though, is the house in dreaming or here?

But spreaded out, it went net-like in a way that did not permit me to interact with it very sorcery-like (doing things). It felt like an animal that solidified into an object, a tool for protection. Which made me thing if the architecture itself wasn’t made for the weaponization of these affects. But as protective feeders, a symbiosis.  So I went back to another common house with corners and did a trick:

I put a big jug full of crystal-clear water at the centre of the table at the centre of the room. Made everything dark but put a light under the jug. On the ceiling, then, many concentric circles formed but the projection did not touch the corners. With this, I was able to transport it from the corner into the circles. It coiled inside them like a snake and I could push it further into the centre if I wanted, or loosen it from the circles (as it filled them). My cousin which I was sharing it was the one to first catch what was happening once she looked up and saw a serpent-like thing. The houses are real but I can dream of them too, I just made the three of them darkrooms and experimented in altering the architecture while maintaining the same reciprocal thing with the manifestation (which by the way only appeared as manifest during these three sessions, and was seen by my cousin on the last one). That’s some news because it seems like I found a principle for the domination of space used by sorcerers. Could this be the origin of the protection circle? A space naturalized by you (so an intention-loaded place in a given pocket of space).

So you repeated the water thing in both houses?

The projection on the way former a circle of concentric circles yet the shadows formed something the made the edges feel more menacing. Yes, the oval one nothing happens because it just covers the entire house. Like the ceiling and walls till the feet but it can be restrained in the water light circles in the other. So it feels like the open

Did you try it with just a drawn circle on the floor?

And in the open, this thing only manifests as a looming gracious feeling. No, I used the projection and just after noticed how it was like a magickal circle.

I mean this is right on the border of the pneuminous/transcendent magickal rules thing. Does the water light thing work because it’s like a magick circle  (and accretive notiong) or do circles work because certain natural phenomena in the human realm facilitate that kind of trapping. I would be tempted to think the former.

I can say that at least in feeling it feels inherent to the forms themselves

Yes, but accretive structures are deep deep deep.

Not as a property of the circle, but a non-causal relational interaction between the concept of the circle and the conceptualizing thing (me and the IOB)

Some of them have been with us for tens of thousands of years. The circle seems to be one of the oldest of these “things”

Yeah, it does.

But again is it intrinsically protective, or does protection just get accreted to it, from the radiating glow of the primal fire? And the concentricity implied the movement of coiling if you’re a creature of certain body plan (i.e evolved on Earth).

On this I have two things ruminating. Either it is intrinsically protective or it became so because I was sharing power with the cousin. But even if it’s the latter case, it might just mean that it is latently protective and there needs to be something external that awakens this latency in the circle/spiral. I just lean more on this last point, that it’s a hybrid combo of an intrinsic protectiveness and an act of impeccability being able to boost this.

This ties to the zones thing I think, the architecture thing and the origin of protection circles (which might be a thesis for magick and sorcery sharing ancestrality or my favourite that sorcery is a later stage of magick, when corporal advantage is needed due to individual choice amplified by a type of land anarchy). Which would make something like the Inca all priests. While the people’s around them are the practitioners of the forbidden (sorcery is always forbidden in all bodies, even its own).

Sorry, if you told me but what does the gas metal thing do with the nodes?

No, I can’t move them. Just use them as points of access.  It’s me the one that moves

They remind me of the scouts in ‘The Art of Dreaming’ though they are not identical.

The gas metal is the same thing that goes over my head and appeared on the corner. It seems like a lens.

Yes it’s ok, I’m with that.

I haven’t arrived there yet in the book.

But does the gas metal thing interact with the nodes, and all I meant by move them was turn them which I thought you said you could do? Scouts are alien energy that appear in dreams, supposedly. I guess this would go for any weird states similar to dreaming. They act as transporters to other places like the IOBS world.

Oh ok. You meant turning. Yes, I can see how that’s confusing. I should describe them better. They feel like balloons filled with water but very solid if the gas metal is not amplified to a certain “frequency”.  I think they are something like alien energy, just my sense. The gas metal is like a lens that opens and goes faster of slower. It indeed feels like a projected (and indeed looks like) pupil, like something poking through, something visible from certain AP. They very much feel like alien presences, but that are in a transit so slow we might as well give up ever seeing or feeling any change unless we can tap into them intentionally (can only happen in dream because I feel drowsy just by trying). The rotation I mean in a way that feels more like a reverberation between them. They being like watermelons filled with water and strange stuff, they juggle only at surface level. The rotation they take up, its configuration, then guided the dream. I visit the placed that are “rotating”. Like a map…

“Here is sudden reticular observation that struck me:
Galileo famously reintroduces that doctrine of primary and secondary qualities.
I looked upon this description of the reticulum and its additive and subtractive nature,
Of course a primary and secondary qualities account of a thing imagines a space not unlike that but in a different way.
Here in a sense we have not only stripped the secondary qualities away but also the primary qualities, Both seem to become relational threads.
Since the threads themselves are the only way we can describe them and not really threads at all.
This in turn made the whole reticulum look to me like a vast diagram.”

Seranoga (1964)

This transcript is of a conversation between the CEO’s Balthazar Schlep and Lis who has been experimenting with various sorcery techniques. We do not recommend emulating Lis’ experiments at home.

Lis is italicised to differentiate the voices.

CC is Carlos Castaneda. DJ is Don Juan.

Ok so something weird happened. You said to try to use the ally-thing to make something happen. So after thinking of the wind and feeling one with it, I seem to have summoned my cat to a place of power. During a trip, there was an imbalance, a discomfort brought up by the fact of the left eye now seeing and moving differently. The suggestive state of the psychedelics allied with this asymmetry (with the metallic thing appearing from one corner only) made so that my body kept being sucked into that corner. But after some weird poking around, I started thinking about the cat and seconds after she appeared here and asked to enter (the door was closed), then entered and went straight to the place counter the corner, ending the discomfort immediately. This has become a motif. The cat itself has become part of the circuitry of this performance spell. It’s like an accretion tapping, like you said. It’s like the routine of the cat, myself, and the plants/fungi are now entangled in this motif

Started to understand the ally better because I’m now jnteracting with nodes. Nodes appear as semi-physical balls defying both light and darkness, the size of watermelons, and they can be felt anywhere, be it in the middle of the air or inside a closet. The only distinction is that nodes cannot move from their place, and there cannot be two nodes too close together, as if they repel each other. So I started using the trick of the light with the left eye (using the comer of the room to shift the level of brightness) to see them better. It’s a faint aura most of the time and, using this trick, I can rotate the the nodes (although for them to move seems impossible).

Rotating the nodes changed the perception of color (beyond that of brightness) and mood of each thing in flux through the air, probably IOBs, creating the sensation of a big circular slide that vibrates and can change to places existing only at the edge of the corner of the eyes. So it feels like moving really fast in a car-spaceship while sitting down, and seeing multiple paths inside a normal 3D space (like a series of broken mirrors).

This field of a type of magnetism that the nodes emit feel like they could be harnessed for energy (it feels like a plant, with the flying IOBs feeling like it’s their habit to “eat” this energy the nodes give off. So they’re like moths to a flame, clustering around the nodes.

Does the metallic thing go away if you want it to?

That’s a good one. Up until now I hadn’t thought about it. Just never wanted it to leave. Seemed weird and disrespectful.

Well ally relationships of use (if that’s what it is) are supposed to have you in control as I understand it. I’m not overly concerned about it but obviously it’s not your ‘friend’ as such, it’s some kind of reciprocal relation thing. It is reasonably said I think that IOBs will try to be whatever you obsess over. Now weirdly yours already looks like a weird multidimensional thing but then this level of complexity and weirdness is in your makeup. I mean I don’t know, it might not be one but whatever it is you should probably be able to have it here or not.

I would say the relation is definitely more like a refined respect that you would find among big animals like a jaguar and a anaconda, they won’t fight because both of them would get very destroyed with no gain.

That’s why it’s so weird to want to control its summoning. It feels like imposing my will into it like an imprint, a name. Which I might be able to do, but I could either tarnish this thing that feels so free and kill myself (acknowledging here the flair of the dramatic like DJ)

It seems related to light (as in reflexions and reflections) and time (as in captured moments). These two main categories seem to govern as the main principles of its effects. It bends light and plays with time. I can feel its presence even when not appearing visibly. And it has since become more fluid in the way that it doesn’t need to appear to work anymore. To make it appear feels each time more important, as if each appearance is supposed to teach me something and each time I learn something it gets harder to properly make it appear (energetic snowball effect). Maybe it is an IOB being something other than an image necessarily. I think the silence was achieved to a different point where the obsessions might have dissipated. It was unbelievably hard to keep this for so long. It honestly feels like Plato seems to have felt about ideas.

It’s a very strange situation, I don’t want to sit here spouting things like the CC books know the truth, besides which this is way beyond any of my occult interactions. I partially think ‘has some weird neurological phenomenon afflicted them?’ But then I think this so. The Warao tribe has a tradition of dark ‘killer’ shamans (that’s how they mostly function) that are trained largely through tobacco, so their bodies are steeped in, by the time they’re (the apprentices) cooked and ready to go, the tobacco has physically altered their bodies, they smell awful on the breath, they look scary from what we would think of as various toxicity effects and their eyes are suited to the twilight apparently another effect we can understand physiologically. But of course from the tribes perspective these alterations are the transformations into the shaman thing, they aren’t ‘really’ the western descriptions. So as I say, if anything you’re experiencing could be explained through neuroscience, it doesn’t really help since the sorcery ontology is in the first place. But it seems to sit well with me that sorcery is very much a physiological thing. I suppose I have in my mind the general sense in magick etc. that other worldly beings generally need restraining and that you can’t trust them and so I exercise a degree of concern for you.

I think it goes straight from trying to work through logoi and nomoi to work on forms that are deliberately created somehow through rituals so that they can alter their new form. Your concern seems to be the case all around the world. DJ is always afraid for CC. Magick shares this with sorcery. And it’s not really clear how they differ.

And that fits with CCs understanding that the giving you what you want could be a kind of trick, maybe?

Yes, the reciprocal trade seems to be a thing that needs care. The giving too much is always a weird sign that something might be wanted from the one sustaining the presence. That’s why I’m not keeping anything. I let it use me as a foil, but it asks before. This feels like payment.

Hmmm, be so careful and consider that you are in quite serious sorcery land here, I don’t know about the death bit but a lot of the hyperbole is clearly appropriate. I’m thinking more that this is a lonely world in a sense, and yes the books do say that but you can see how it’s true, you end up something truly other. It’s not just something that will be there and then ‘now to get on with my proper life’

That thing about IOBs being things one obsesses over. This very thing seemed to manifest differently, as small obsessions then a big one (the pink river dolphin) before it cracked and this time-warper light thing emerged. Yes, definitely. I will be timing this and closing shop by the end of the month. It’s a limited vacation.